Advertisement

First time visiting? Register for
your free username and password

 

Bryan Rosner's Lyme Disease Video Blog

Hello Readers,

I decided not to blog with text when instead I can reach my readership with video blogging—much more exciting! The field of Lyme Disease research and alternative treatment is constantly evolving. I hope this blog helps you gain insight into this elusive and widespread infection. Thanks for visiting! To learn more about my research, please check out my two best-selling Lyme Disease books:

I hope you find this blog to be useful and informative. Remember, if you have comments or questions, you can always reply to the blog posts and engage in the discussion. Please read the disclaimer before viewing this blog.

Above is the video introduction to this blog. Please look below for additional video posts. Please read the General Disclaimer and Video Blog Disclaimer.

Main Menu
Forum Home
Search
 Register New User
 Books, Videos, DVDs
 Current Lyme News
 Lyme/Rife Forum
 Suggestion Box
Sponsored Links
Forum Stats
3439 Members
24 Forums
4840 Topics
6237 Posts

Max Online: 251 @ 12/25/10 12:01 AM
Top Posters
2169
LymeAngl
2069
Angls4hope
268
BryanRosner
178
Rich_skiweasel7
115
Steve
Request Free Info

Page 2 of 2 <12
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#3698 - 06/23/08 04:10 PM Re: The Lyme Disease End Game [Re: Rich_Van_K]
Connie
Spirochete Hunter


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 58
Hi Rich,

Thanks for your comprehensive response!
It is late and I have to get on a plane early tomorrow AM, so will respond more at length when I get a chance (I'm going to a Lyme-autim conference so might be a week or so), but I wanted to at least let you know that I appreciate your efforts to share what you have learned. I will definitely look into the reports you mention. I would be curious to see what degree of healing people are having with the methylation protocol.
Take care, and best wishes to you, too!

Connie
_________________________
Connie Strasheim
Author, "The Lyme Disease Survival Guide"
http://www.lymebytes.blogspot.com

Top
10% Off Colostrum! (Sponsored Offer)

#3701 - 06/24/08 12:05 PM Re: The Lyme Disease End Game [Re: Rich_Van_K]
Connie
Spirochete Hunter


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 58
Hi Pawel and Rich,

Well here I am again...I ended up having more time today than I thought (due to missing an airplane...)

Thank you both for your great insights! :-)

Pawel, you make some excellent points about the healing process. I agree with your thoughts on this.

And holy cow, Rich, you sure can write!...thanks for the in-depth explanation of your CFS theory. Obviously, if there are physicians practicing this approach with success, then you have really done your homework. I will have a look at the groups and studies.

I may be interested in posting a blog post on this theory, at some point, if you don't mind!

Also, if you have the time, I'd like to just ask you a couple of more questions.

First, do you have the details documented somewhere about how glutathione works with the other nutritional agents in the treatment plan to fix the methylation block?

Second, you mention in one of your messages above that, "The adrenals are not at fault (re. HPA dysfunction), as shown by results on the cortrosyn test." What is the cortrosyn test?
Does this somehow measure the source of adrenal insufficiency (ie, whether it is a result of a pituitary problem or directly attributable to the adrenals?)

While many of your points convince me, I'm not sure I yet agree that HPA dysfunction is mainly a result of glutathione depletion. (Personally, I had adrenal fatigue prior to Lyme, so if your theory is correct, then is it possible that my glutathione was being depleted due to factors other than borrelia? Would emotional stress do it, too?

I happen to think that living in fight-or-flight mode for too many years (again, due to emotional stress), caused my cortisol levels to skyrocket, which, over the long term, caused adrenal insufficiency and immune suppression, as sustained high levels of cortisol lower T and NK-cell production. I have improved only as I have treated my stress levels.

I also thought HPA-dysfunction could be a direct result of borrelia neurotoxins stuck to receptor sites on the HPA-axis.

Anyway, just more thoughts! Feel free to respond or leave 'em be.

Thanks again,

Connie
_________________________
Connie Strasheim
Author, "The Lyme Disease Survival Guide"
http://www.lymebytes.blogspot.com

Top
#3703 - 06/25/08 10:32 AM Re: The Lyme Disease End Game [Re: Connie]
Rich_Van_K
New Researcher


Registered: 06/21/08
Posts: 8
Hi, Connie.

Thanks for your comments. My responses are at the asterisks below:


I may be interested in posting a blog post on this theory, at some point, if you don't mind!

***That would be fine with me, and if you need more information, let me know.

Also, if you have the time, I'd like to just ask you a couple of more questions.

***O.K., I'll give them a shot!

First, do you have the details documented somewhere about how glutathione works with the other nutritional agents in the treatment plan to fix the methylation block?

***Glutathione itself is not included in the five supplements in the so-called "simplified treatment approach" that are listed earlier in this series of posts. Some people have found that adding it helps. The reason it helps (provided the extra sulfur metabolites do not overload the sulfite oxidase enzyme and cause symptoms due to elevated sulfite, which occurs in some people) is that glutathione, as the basis of the antioxidant enzyme system in the body, counters oxidative stress. Oxidative stress is what initially triggers a shutdown of methionine synthase and the methylation cycle. It does this by oxidizing the cobalt ion in cobalamin (vitamin B12) from the +1 to the +2 oxidation state. B12 acts as a coenzyme for methionine synthase. This is a normal control mechanism that is used by the cell to divert more flow from homocysteine down the transsulfuration pathway, so that more glutathione can be synthesized to counter the oxidative stress. This normally switches back when the oxidative stress has been taken care of. However, in CFS and autism, it doesn't switch back, and I have suggested that the reason is that toxins react with B12 and waylay it, so that it cannot be converted to methylcobalamin to replace the cobalamin that has the oxidized cobalt ion, and get methionine synthase turned on again.

***So the short answer is that glutathione can help to keep the cobalt ion from being oxidized and shutting down methionine synthase.

Second, you mention in one of your messages above that, "The adrenals are not at fault (re. HPA dysfunction), as shown by results on the cortrosyn test." What is the cortrosyn test?
Does this somehow measure the source of adrenal insufficiency (ie, whether it is a result of a pituitary problem or directly attributable to the adrenals?)

***Yes. In the cortrosyn test, a synthetic form of ACTH is given, and the cortisol level is monitored. If the adrenals are O.K., they will put out cortisol when this is done. If they do, the problem is not primary adrenal insufficiency, but it is secondary, i.e. in the pituitary, or tertiary, i.e. in the hypothalamus. The HPA axis blunting in most cases of CFS does not appear to be due to primary adrenal insufficiency.

While many of your points convince me, I'm not sure I yet agree that HPA dysfunction is mainly a result of glutathione depletion. (Personally, I had adrenal fatigue prior to Lyme, so if your theory is correct, then is it possible that my glutathione was being depleted due to factors other than borrelia? Would emotional stress do it, too?

***Yes, and yes. If you read my 2004 poster paper at the IACFS conference, you can see a discussion of various factors that can contribute to the depletion of glutathione. I'll post it to the files section of the Lyme-and-rife group's website.

I happen to think that living in fight-or-flight mode for too many years (again, due to emotional stress), caused my cortisol levels to skyrocket, which, over the long term, caused adrenal insufficiency and immune suppression, as sustained high levels of cortisol lower T and NK-cell production. I have improved only as I have treated my stress levels.

***Right on! Connie, you could have been a "poster girl" for my 2004 poster paper!(:-) Emotional stress is a biggie, and seems to be especially so in the females with CFS. This is not intended to be a sexist remark, but is an observation I've made from studying questionnaires I've given to a large number of people with CFS over several years. Emotional stress plays an important role in the onset of many cases of CFS. It also seems to be true that it is not involved in all cases. There are some "rough and tough, macho-type" guys who don't seem to have a history of emotional stress (and I think they are being honest about it), but still have developed CFS. There are many ways to raise cortisol and epinephrine, which leads to glutathione depletion, and also ways to deplete glutathione separately, and the combinations differ for different cases. What these cases have in common, in my hypothesis, is that glutathione becomes depleted and a chronic block develops at methionine synthase. A genomic predisposition is necessary, at least in the sporadic cases of CFS, to facilitate this mechanism. In the epidemic or cluster cases of CFS, the genomic factor does not seem to be as important, perhaps because a very virulent virus is involved.

I also thought HPA-dysfunction could be a direct result of borrelia neurotoxins stuck to receptor sites on the HPA-axis.

***Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker has advocated a mechanism like this, and it may be valid as well. There could very well be more than one mechanism interfering with proper operation of the HPA axis. In people who have inherited certain isotypes of the HLA (human leukocyte antigen) system, Dr. Shoemaker argues that the biotoxins are not recognized and taken out by the immune system, so they build up and remain in the body, producing lots of mischief. It may well be that the complete treatment of Lyme disease in people with these HLA isotypes must include something like his cholestyramine treatment. I think that treatment of this subgroup as well as others might also need to include treatment to lift the methylation cycle block.

Best regards,

Rich

Top
Page 2 of 2 <12


Moderator:  BryanRosner 
Hop to:
Advertisement

Bryan's Blog

Latest News:

 
This doctor just released the first book about Lyme written by an M.D. Learn More.

Shout Box

Newest Members
FredTalbot, rueyroo, Kimmy, ManarPen, diegoOa
3439 Registered Users
Who's Online
0 registered and 19 anonymous users online.
Lyme Disease Book
Latest Forum Topics

Generated in 0.018 seconds in which 0.005 seconds were spent on a total of 13 queries. Zlib compression disabled.

Lyme Community Forums - Discussion, Support, Friends!

Bryan Rosner's Video Blog

DISCLAIMER

Bryan Rosner is a journalist, not a doctor or physician, and this video blog is intended to be viewed for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. The blog's content should not be interpreted as medical advise under any circumstances. By reading this disclaimer and viewing the videos, you agree that you understand this disclaimer.

 New posts in this forum since you last visited              No new posts  


Copyright © 2006 Lyme Community Forums. All rights reserved.

DISCLAIMER:  This group is for informational and educational purposes only and is not intended to prevent, diagnose, treat or cure disease.  The owners, moderators, members and contributors of this group are not doctors.  This group shall not substitute for advice from a licensed healthcare practitioner.

Advertise with us       Visit our Storefront       History of Rife Technology       What is Chronic Lyme Disease?